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	<title>Comments on: Why the ACNM needs more CMs</title>
	<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/</link>
	<description>The Diary of a New Midwife</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: The Midwife</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-93985</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-93985</guid>
					<description>Hi, K!  Don't worry about it making your head spin.  It makes my head spin too (it gives me a headache, actually).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, K!  Don&#8217;t worry about it making your head spin.  It makes my head spin too (it gives me a headache, actually).
</p>
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		<title>by: k</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-93682</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 04:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-93682</guid>
					<description>Sorry, perhaps it is the perpetual state of exhaustion that I live in... but whoa...
We have Registered Midwives.
Then we have people who have done the PLEA's (Previous Learning Experience Assessment or some such thing relating to those words...).  These people encompass, form L&#38;D nurses, women who apprenticed with midwives, women who have some university, women who have taken correspondence coursework ... you get the idea.  They are Registed Midwives as well, once they have completed the exams.
And then we have the hush hush whispered about women who are attending other women.
All because we don't have enough people in the first two realms.  Or sometimes it is the choice to go outside the 'legislated midwifery', one I can't speak for... not knowing anyone who is willing to speak about it.
So.... all this discussion of what letters follow your name, which schooling offers what... is making my head spin.
I do know that a lot of previously c-sectioned mamas in the USA do seek out midwives with almost any varience after their name... just so that they have a chance at a vaginal birth.  
Going to read this post again one day.  Perhaps I'll be able to make sense of who is who one day =)

So after all that rambling...
Congratulations on ALL the letters after your name!  
You have obviously worked very hard for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, perhaps it is the perpetual state of exhaustion that I live in&#8230; but whoa&#8230;<br />
We have Registered Midwives.<br />
Then we have people who have done the PLEA&#8217;s (Previous Learning Experience Assessment or some such thing relating to those words&#8230;).  These people encompass, form L&amp;D nurses, women who apprenticed with midwives, women who have some university, women who have taken correspondence coursework &#8230; you get the idea.  They are Registed Midwives as well, once they have completed the exams.<br />
And then we have the hush hush whispered about women who are attending other women.<br />
All because we don&#8217;t have enough people in the first two realms.  Or sometimes it is the choice to go outside the &#8216;legislated midwifery&#8217;, one I can&#8217;t speak for&#8230; not knowing anyone who is willing to speak about it.<br />
So&#8230;. all this discussion of what letters follow your name, which schooling offers what&#8230; is making my head spin.<br />
I do know that a lot of previously c-sectioned mamas in the USA do seek out midwives with almost any varience after their name&#8230; just so that they have a chance at a vaginal birth.<br />
Going to read this post again one day.  Perhaps I&#8217;ll be able to make sense of who is who one day =)</p>
<p>So after all that rambling&#8230;<br />
Congratulations on ALL the letters after your name!<br />
You have obviously worked very hard for them.
</p>
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		<title>by: rg</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-87658</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-87658</guid>
					<description>I love your blog so much I finally registered.

Part of the problem in getting a big umbrella for the midwifery community is the fact that midwifery is still illegal in some states in the US. Those states that are smart enough to not outlaw it still may not encourage it, and CNM is the ice-breaker of midwifery. People are more comfortable with that nurse part in there, and seeing someone who comes from within the sanctioned medical community. Those states that are smart enough to license their own midwives - a licensed midwife or LM - have huge differences in how their LMs are treated in terms of scope of practice, requiring OB supervision, regulation, etc. Midwifery still has a whole lot of fish to fry, and the ACNM can more narrowly focus on issues pertaining to CNMs, like hospital policies, perhaps? 

Also, the medical professional communities do everything to keep their business, such as ACOG statements that home births are dangerous. Midwifery needs a lobby as powerful. It should be more powerful, since midwives should be treating more patients than OBs.

I'm on the West Coast and some states, like Oregon, are very progressive in what midwives are responsible for. More often it's a catch-22. They want midwives to collaborate with physicians, but physicians are not willing to provide backup. Or malpractice insurers refuse to cover them. A broader national legislative policy change would go a long way, except I'd hate for it to undermine the few progressive states where midwifery has more of a chance to thrive.

This whole issue is affecting care for regular people. Not many, but a few of us interested in home birth, or natural birth, or not becoming a c-section statistic. I was only able to see a CPM for my second birth because I paid cash and because she was willing to work without being covered by malpractice insurance. I'm grateful that she did, but she shouldn't have to put her livelihood on the line to do her job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love your blog so much I finally registered.</p>
<p>Part of the problem in getting a big umbrella for the midwifery community is the fact that midwifery is still illegal in some states in the US. Those states that are smart enough to not outlaw it still may not encourage it, and CNM is the ice-breaker of midwifery. People are more comfortable with that nurse part in there, and seeing someone who comes from within the sanctioned medical community. Those states that are smart enough to license their own midwives - a licensed midwife or LM - have huge differences in how their LMs are treated in terms of scope of practice, requiring OB supervision, regulation, etc. Midwifery still has a whole lot of fish to fry, and the ACNM can more narrowly focus on issues pertaining to CNMs, like hospital policies, perhaps? </p>
<p>Also, the medical professional communities do everything to keep their business, such as ACOG statements that home births are dangerous. Midwifery needs a lobby as powerful. It should be more powerful, since midwives should be treating more patients than OBs.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m on the West Coast and some states, like Oregon, are very progressive in what midwives are responsible for. More often it&#8217;s a catch-22. They want midwives to collaborate with physicians, but physicians are not willing to provide backup. Or malpractice insurers refuse to cover them. A broader national legislative policy change would go a long way, except I&#8217;d hate for it to undermine the few progressive states where midwifery has more of a chance to thrive.</p>
<p>This whole issue is affecting care for regular people. Not many, but a few of us interested in home birth, or natural birth, or not becoming a c-section statistic. I was only able to see a CPM for my second birth because I paid cash and because she was willing to work without being covered by malpractice insurance. I&#8217;m grateful that she did, but she shouldn&#8217;t have to put her livelihood on the line to do her job.
</p>
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		<title>by: emjaybee</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-86976</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-86976</guid>
					<description>I'm in Texas, and have pretty much decided to go with getting a CPM, although the better security of CNM does tempt me now and again. Frankly, I just don't want to a) spend the money on a nursing degree and b) be as restricted in what kind of births I can attend. I certainly don't want to have to go back and get a doctorate in nursing a few years down the road either.

I do wish we could be as sensible as NZ in resolving this, but of course, there is a lot of money and power at stake. It's not just the nursing schools and the ACNM, it's the OBs and ACOG who have a stake in who gets to attend birth, and it's going to be a long struggle to get things in better shape.

I do wonder if, as looks likely, we're moving towards more universal healthcare coverage, how that will shake up these power structures. It may be an interesting few decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in Texas, and have pretty much decided to go with getting a CPM, although the better security of CNM does tempt me now and again. Frankly, I just don&#8217;t want to a) spend the money on a nursing degree and b) be as restricted in what kind of births I can attend. I certainly don&#8217;t want to have to go back and get a doctorate in nursing a few years down the road either.</p>
<p>I do wish we could be as sensible as NZ in resolving this, but of course, there is a lot of money and power at stake. It&#8217;s not just the nursing schools and the ACNM, it&#8217;s the OBs and ACOG who have a stake in who gets to attend birth, and it&#8217;s going to be a long struggle to get things in better shape.</p>
<p>I do wonder if, as looks likely, we&#8217;re moving towards more universal healthcare coverage, how that will shake up these power structures. It may be an interesting few decades.
</p>
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		<title>by: The Midwife</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-86960</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-86960</guid>
					<description>I know of a few CPMs who do practice in New York State, they just do so illegally and under the radar.  It really sucks that such knowledgeable, highly-trained midwives aren't recognized in this state, and aren't allowed to enjoy the benefits of legal practice.  That's definitely something we could work on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know of a few CPMs who do practice in New York State, they just do so illegally and under the radar.  It really sucks that such knowledgeable, highly-trained midwives aren&#8217;t recognized in this state, and aren&#8217;t allowed to enjoy the benefits of legal practice.  That&#8217;s definitely something we could work on.
</p>
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		<title>by: frectis</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-85588</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-85588</guid>
					<description>What might be interesting to you is I know there are at lease 2 grads from my MEAC program who are practicing as CMs in NY.  It's been a while (5 years?) since I read the announcement in an email congratulating them but it seemed to me they had they had the BS, did the entry-level ASM with CPM at my school, then through their portfolio were allowed to sit for the ACMB exams.  So they are CM-CPMs although obviously NY doesn't recognize the CPM part of their paths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What might be interesting to you is I know there are at lease 2 grads from my MEAC program who are practicing as CMs in NY.  It&#8217;s been a while (5 years?) since I read the announcement in an email congratulating them but it seemed to me they had they had the BS, did the entry-level ASM with CPM at my school, then through their portfolio were allowed to sit for the ACMB exams.  So they are CM-CPMs although obviously NY doesn&#8217;t recognize the CPM part of their paths.
</p>
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		<title>by: The Midwife</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-85524</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-85524</guid>
					<description>Yeah, Kitty is fantastic.  I can't believe she's president of the ACNM again.  What stamina!  

I've heard a lot about Mainstreaming Midwives, but I haven't read it yet.  I will definitely get on that ASAP, especially since I am such a fan of Robbie Davis-Floyd. 

Thank you so much for responding to my questions!  I am much more familiar with the nurse-midwifery track, obviously, because that's the path I took, but I have so much respect for my CPM colleaugues.  One of my really good friends in Kentucky is thinking of becoming a CPM at the moment, and I'm really looking forward to following her progress through her education.  Strangely enough, for all its forward progress in direct-entry midwifery, CPMs are not actually legal in New York State, only CMs, so when I was debating my educational options, CPM didn't even occur to me, sadly.  

Sounds like you have a really good practice situation set up, though.  And I'm really glad to hear that you can do well-woman gyn care too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Kitty is fantastic.  I can&#8217;t believe she&#8217;s president of the ACNM again.  What stamina!  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard a lot about Mainstreaming Midwives, but I haven&#8217;t read it yet.  I will definitely get on that ASAP, especially since I am such a fan of Robbie Davis-Floyd. </p>
<p>Thank you so much for responding to my questions!  I am much more familiar with the nurse-midwifery track, obviously, because that&#8217;s the path I took, but I have so much respect for my CPM colleaugues.  One of my really good friends in Kentucky is thinking of becoming a CPM at the moment, and I&#8217;m really looking forward to following her progress through her education.  Strangely enough, for all its forward progress in direct-entry midwifery, CPMs are not actually legal in New York State, only CMs, so when I was debating my educational options, CPM didn&#8217;t even occur to me, sadly.  </p>
<p>Sounds like you have a really good practice situation set up, though.  And I&#8217;m really glad to hear that you can do well-woman gyn care too.
</p>
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		<title>by: frectis</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-85394</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-85394</guid>
					<description>Congratulations on all the great changes in your life, midwife!  I just wanted to say this is a fantastic post and so timely a subject considering the presentation that Robbie Davis-Floyd just gave at the Gentle Birth Congress.  It is such a good post I sent her a link to it.  Anyhooooooo, to answer your questions as the CPM on the thread:

1.  Depending on the state the CPM is legal, she may or may not require physician supervision.  Example, I was previously in a state where I had autonomy but my guidelines for scope of practice were pretty narrow but at the same time open for interpretation (some say purposely designed that way).  In the state I am currently in we must practice with physician supervision, however, the malpractice policies of physicians expressly prohibit their participation in our practice so it's a Catch-22.  I am in a practice with a CNM who has a collaborative doc who signs off on both of us.

2.  Again depending on the state we are in we may or may not be able to do well-woman care.  I am a MEAC grad, a CPM, and a LM.  My MEAC education prepares me for this but it is not a competency required of entry-level CPMs, but my current state grants me the scope to provide that care.  So I do normal well-woman gyn, paps, breast exams, etc.  Rx for contraception are written through the CNM if desired.  In my last state of practice well-woman care was not addressed and was readily considered a gray area; some provided it, most did not.

Did you know that the ACNM wanted to name their DEMs "CPM"?  Davis-Floyd told a story about the inception of NARM and a landmark MANA meeting where the titles of CM and CPM were tossed around before CPM was settled on.  The only thing left for ACNM was CM and that was adopted at their next meeting.  The contention between ACNM and MANA runs deep.  Her book Mainstreaming Midwives chronicles the events of the most important meetings between the two organizations that she was either a part of or a moderator for during heated conventions.

The CNM I work with had an ADN, a BS in Nursing Admin, and a direct-entry CNM through an old community type of program designed to get "lay midwives" off the streets and into respectable titles back in the day.  Her CNM is the last of their kind.  I'd love to have that pathway.  I'd really appreciate the nursing education, but don't want to be a nurse and that is a huge stumbling block to proceeding with a CNM path.

Happy midwifery week!  I appreciate the ACNM not calling it nurse-midwifery week and I think we have Kitty Ernst to thank for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations on all the great changes in your life, midwife!  I just wanted to say this is a fantastic post and so timely a subject considering the presentation that Robbie Davis-Floyd just gave at the Gentle Birth Congress.  It is such a good post I sent her a link to it.  Anyhooooooo, to answer your questions as the CPM on the thread:</p>
<p>1.  Depending on the state the CPM is legal, she may or may not require physician supervision.  Example, I was previously in a state where I had autonomy but my guidelines for scope of practice were pretty narrow but at the same time open for interpretation (some say purposely designed that way).  In the state I am currently in we must practice with physician supervision, however, the malpractice policies of physicians expressly prohibit their participation in our practice so it&#8217;s a Catch-22.  I am in a practice with a CNM who has a collaborative doc who signs off on both of us.</p>
<p>2.  Again depending on the state we are in we may or may not be able to do well-woman care.  I am a MEAC grad, a CPM, and a LM.  My MEAC education prepares me for this but it is not a competency required of entry-level CPMs, but my current state grants me the scope to provide that care.  So I do normal well-woman gyn, paps, breast exams, etc.  Rx for contraception are written through the CNM if desired.  In my last state of practice well-woman care was not addressed and was readily considered a gray area; some provided it, most did not.</p>
<p>Did you know that the ACNM wanted to name their DEMs &#8220;CPM&#8221;?  Davis-Floyd told a story about the inception of NARM and a landmark MANA meeting where the titles of CM and CPM were tossed around before CPM was settled on.  The only thing left for ACNM was CM and that was adopted at their next meeting.  The contention between ACNM and MANA runs deep.  Her book Mainstreaming Midwives chronicles the events of the most important meetings between the two organizations that she was either a part of or a moderator for during heated conventions.</p>
<p>The CNM I work with had an ADN, a BS in Nursing Admin, and a direct-entry CNM through an old community type of program designed to get &#8220;lay midwives&#8221; off the streets and into respectable titles back in the day.  Her CNM is the last of their kind.  I&#8217;d love to have that pathway.  I&#8217;d really appreciate the nursing education, but don&#8217;t want to be a nurse and that is a huge stumbling block to proceeding with a CNM path.</p>
<p>Happy midwifery week!  I appreciate the ACNM not calling it nurse-midwifery week and I think we have Kitty Ernst to thank for that.
</p>
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		<title>by: EmoryStudentMidwife</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-84580</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 16:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-84580</guid>
					<description>For me, I am quite similar to Kgallionexum as I entered my program with a BA in Women's Studies.  And while I find it somewhat inconvenient that I have to get a nursing degree prior to starting my midwifery education, I felt compelled to become a CNM because I want to get an education/certification that I can use in all 50 states.  I want to be able to prescribe which (ironically) you can do in every state except GA.  I originally came from a state (VA) where the only midwives who can practice legally are CNMs -- we didn't have CMs or professional midwives.  And moreover, I felt that a nursing degree can open doors to other opportunities further down the line that I don't think would be there without this education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, I am quite similar to Kgallionexum as I entered my program with a BA in Women&#8217;s Studies.  And while I find it somewhat inconvenient that I have to get a nursing degree prior to starting my midwifery education, I felt compelled to become a CNM because I want to get an education/certification that I can use in all 50 states.  I want to be able to prescribe which (ironically) you can do in every state except GA.  I originally came from a state (VA) where the only midwives who can practice legally are CNMs &#8212; we didn&#8217;t have CMs or professional midwives.  And moreover, I felt that a nursing degree can open doors to other opportunities further down the line that I don&#8217;t think would be there without this education.
</p>
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		<title>by: hannah banana</title>
		<link>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-84578</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 16:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bellytales.com/2007/10/02/why-the-acnm-needs-more-cms/#comment-84578</guid>
					<description>Hey there, 
I'm currently in the process of applying to schools and so I'm pretty familiar with the program options out there - I can say with a fair degree of certainty that your program is indeed the ONLY program in the country to offer the Masters of Midwifery/CM option.  
As somebody from a non-nursing background the CM option is incredibly appealing, the only downside being that it would leave me fairly geographically restricted - something that I'm trying to avoid.  That is a huge factor in my decision but it's pretty much the only negative that I've found for the program (well that and now the whole DNP 2015 issue, which my understanding is that as a CM I would be in a less than optimal position to navigate that mess).  So likely I'll apply to both entry to practice nursing programs and the SUNY CM program and make the decision in a couple months (assuming the application process is successful enough to allow for that).  Nurses are great but I don't want to be a nurse, I've never wanted to be a nurse, but I do want to be a midwife (now try to turn that into an appealing essay for a nursing school application)and right now becoming a nurse first just might be the best way to accomplish my goal.  It took me a long time but I've made some degree of peace with the idea.  
It is my entirely personal opinion that being a nurse-midwife is not the factor that makes one a better midwife.  Other countries with incredibly vibrant and successful midwifery care have demonstrated this to be true - I could be wrong but it seems that all of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and most of Europe have separated the profession of midwifery from the profession of nursing with excellent results.  This can be done and in order to get it done maybe we need people in the field who are optimistic and naive enough (i.e. YOU and other midwives with similar beliefs like, hopefully someday  myself) to pursue it and encourage that change for future generations of midwives.  Already you've hit on some key ideas - a state Board of Midwifery separate from the Board of Nursing is a great place to start (surely easier said than done but still a great place to start).  And you never know, maybe the whole DNP thing will actually help to contribute to a push within the field for change.  One way or the other it'll happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there,<br />
I&#8217;m currently in the process of applying to schools and so I&#8217;m pretty familiar with the program options out there - I can say with a fair degree of certainty that your program is indeed the ONLY program in the country to offer the Masters of Midwifery/CM option.<br />
As somebody from a non-nursing background the CM option is incredibly appealing, the only downside being that it would leave me fairly geographically restricted - something that I&#8217;m trying to avoid.  That is a huge factor in my decision but it&#8217;s pretty much the only negative that I&#8217;ve found for the program (well that and now the whole DNP 2015 issue, which my understanding is that as a CM I would be in a less than optimal position to navigate that mess).  So likely I&#8217;ll apply to both entry to practice nursing programs and the SUNY CM program and make the decision in a couple months (assuming the application process is successful enough to allow for that).  Nurses are great but I don&#8217;t want to be a nurse, I&#8217;ve never wanted to be a nurse, but I do want to be a midwife (now try to turn that into an appealing essay for a nursing school application)and right now becoming a nurse first just might be the best way to accomplish my goal.  It took me a long time but I&#8217;ve made some degree of peace with the idea.<br />
It is my entirely personal opinion that being a nurse-midwife is not the factor that makes one a better midwife.  Other countries with incredibly vibrant and successful midwifery care have demonstrated this to be true - I could be wrong but it seems that all of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and most of Europe have separated the profession of midwifery from the profession of nursing with excellent results.  This can be done and in order to get it done maybe we need people in the field who are optimistic and naive enough (i.e. YOU and other midwives with similar beliefs like, hopefully someday  myself) to pursue it and encourage that change for future generations of midwives.  Already you&#8217;ve hit on some key ideas - a state Board of Midwifery separate from the Board of Nursing is a great place to start (surely easier said than done but still a great place to start).  And you never know, maybe the whole DNP thing will actually help to contribute to a push within the field for change.  One way or the other it&#8217;ll happen.
</p>
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